Sidecars
Leaner Sidecar Combination – Bike Leans and Sidecar Doesn’t
Nov
Leaner Sidecars – Minimal Modification Required
Why Build a Leaner Sidecar?
Are there any issues with a Rigid Hack Sidecar combination?
The answer is yes. This article will address the Pros and Cons of a Leaner Sidecar and the benefits of building this combination rather than the more common Rigid Hack.
If you are not sure what a Rigid Hack is, then perhaps read Rigid Sidecars (Hacks) – Neither Sidecar or Motorcycle Lean first and return to this article.
Here is discussed the attachment of a sidecar to a motorcycle as a Leaner Sidecar Combination
Leaner Sidecars are very unique and quite rare. This method of sidecar combination is very safe, due to the motorcycle counter-steering as designed by the manufacturer.
Flexible, Parallel and Leaning sidecars have been around since 1903.
In the hands of a professional, they outperformed a conventional Rigid Hack.
Pros:
- Minimal Modification: No need for Leading Link modifications or Steering Damper.
- Safer cornering with counter steering
- Cannot accidentally “Fly the Chair”, (if the tub lifts on a bend, the motorcycle can be forced to go straight and endanger oncoming traffic, also I personally know of an accident that an empty tub lifted, while overtaking a truck, and flipped the whole combination into the bush, many broken bones etc)
- Experienced solo riders can easily ride a Flexible, Parallel or Leaner sidecar
- In many designs, easy removal of sidecar to allow solo riding
Cons:
- In Width: In the case of a Leaner Sidecar, the sidecar must be mounted further away from motorcycle to allow for lean. This is not a disadvantage for the Flexible Sidecar
- Drivers of “Hacks” will need to re-learn to ride a leaner sidecar (counter steering)
Leaner Sidecar in Action
A demonstration of a beautiful BMW K1600 Sport Leaner Sidecar
Leaner Sidecars – Past and Present
Following is presented an explanation of leaner sidecars, manuals explaining the construction/attachment and links to past and present leaner sidecar manufacturers.
What makes leaner sidecars unique is that the sidecar remains straight while the motorcycle leans.
As pointed out above, this is the preferred method of attaching a wheelchair accessible sidecar to a motorcycle.
With this design, (unlike a Flexible Sidecar) we are able to keep the occupant close to the ground.
Leaner Sidecar Videos
Proof you can’t “Fly the Chair”
Watch a Leaner in Operation
Another Leaner in Action
A Clear Video of the Pivots
Thank you Shahn for posting this video on YouTube. This video provides a clear view of the Leaner Sidecar attachment and the raised Front Mount. To see photos of the bike and read about the build, look for Shahn’s comment on this page: https://haulnride.com/about-haul-n-ride#comment-79
Leaner Sidecar Manufacturers
Armec Sidewinder Leaner Sidecars
Below is a video of an Armec Sidewinder Leaner Sidecar.
Armec Sidewinder Sidecars are located in Switzerland.
Kalich Leaner Sidecars
Here is a clear video of a Kalich Leaner Sidecar in action.
More Kalich Leaner Videos: Click Here
Kalich is a manufacturer of Swing – a Leaner Sidecar in Germany.
Sauer Sidecars
Sauer Sidecars are located in Germany
DG Sidecars
The DG Swing Sidecar makes sense if you want to enjoy sidecar riding with all its advantages and you don’t want to miss the actual FUN OF LEANING WHEN RIDING.
Advantages Like:
- added space for your partner
- take extra luggage
- bring your kids
- bring the dog
- load up the camping gear
Leaner Sidecar Attachment
The fore and aft Pivot Mounts on the motorcycle are to be placed on its center-line.
The front Pivot Mount is simply placed slightly higher than is that of the rear.
This then “steers” the sidecar wheel slightly as the motorcycle is steered to the left & right.
The front Horizontal Mounting Bar has a slight upward bend near the Pivot Mounting Point, while the rear one is straight.
Compare the slight difference in the height above the road between the front and rear Pivot Mounting Points on this BMW:
As the motorcycle leans the front Pivot Mount moves further outboard than does the rear Pivot Mount.
This will steer the sidecar wheel as the motorcycle is leaned over. The higher front Pivot Mount steers it in the direction of travel. Think of the arc the pivot points are traveling on as the bike is leaned in and out. The center of this arc is the ground. Claude
Source: Click Here
Please watch the following video for further understanding:
Photographic Examples of Sidecar Chassis, Horizontal Mounting Bars, Pivot Brackets and Pivots
Example 1 Sidecar Chassis, Pivot Bracket and Pivots
Example 2 Pivot Bracket and Pivots
The pivots need to be inline with the center-line of the bike so the load is directly down.
Otherwise, just like standing on one foot peg, a motorcycle is going to fall over. So to mount on one side of the motorcycle frame, you would be fighting that effect all the time while riding.
Having the front Pivot Mount higher than the rear Pivot Mount makes the sidecar turn/steer in the direction of the corner when you lean. As the front Pivot Mount being higher it has a longer arc radius than the rear Pivot Mount which pushes or pulls the front of the sidecar across more than the rear Pivot Mount does. Pete-NZ
Source: Click Here
Example 3 Pivot Bracket and Pivots
Armec Sidewinder Leaner Sidecar Measurements
Edwards, mentioned above, was kind enough to send in some measurements of the Pivot Points on his Armec Sidewinder Sidecar. Thank you Edwards 🙂
Rear Pivot Mount is 6.75 inches from the floor to the center of the bolt.
Front Pivot Mount is 10 inches from the floor to the center of the bolt.
Front Pivot Mount from a different angle.
Sidecar Wheel Lead
Sidecar wheel lead refers to the sidecar wheel hub being forward of the motorcycle rear axle. Average Wheel Lead is between 8 to 12 inches (200-300mm). To understand why Wheel Lead is important, imagine a sidecar/motorcycle combination without Wheel Lead, (the sidecar wheel hub is in line with the motorcycle rear axle),
Now imagine you take one of the front wheels off a car. If you turn too fast, or reduce speed suddenly, you will raise the rear wheel off the ground and nose dive the front of the car toward the ground, (on the missing wheel side). This is why Wheel Lead is important.
The more Wheel Lead is forward, the better weight distribution, the further toward the rear, the less scrubbing of tyres on turns. Therefore, Wheel Lead is placed slightly forward of the motorcycle rear wheel to find the best compromise between reducing scrubbing and safety.
Early Harley Davidson rigid hacks did not have wheel lead, whereas racing hacks designed for the track have very large wheel lead.
Extracted from the Sidecar Manual2003: http://www.cyclesidecar.com/pdfs/Sidecar Manual.PDF
Tow In Adjustment Guide
Image Source: Click Here
The sidecar wheel should be angled slightly toward the front of the motorcycle.
An incorrectly aligned sidecar will drag the motorcycle to either side, which will not only make the combination difficult to handle, but also cause excessive tire wear. Alignment is best accomplished on a smooth level floor.
Toe-in is checked by placing a straightedge along the motorcycle wheels and a straight edge along the sidecar wheel. This creates two parallel lines. The solid straight edges form a measurement line parallel to the center-line of the motorcycle and a measurement line parallel to the sidecar wheel.
The spacing between the straight edges at front and rear determine the toe-in. Measurement points are below the front and rear axles of the motorcycle. Take care to measure along a line perpendicular to the straight edge, and to keep both straight edges in contact with the tires.
Recommended toe-in is 3/8 inch (9.5 mm). That is, toe-in is correct when spacing between the two straight edges at the front axle is 3/8 inch (9.5 mm) less than that at the rear axle.
Again, this is only a starting point but will get you close. After this, it is trial and error to try to get the rig (motorcycle) so that it does not pull left or right when braking or accelerating. The process can be a little frustrating the first time, but some patience will go a long way. After the first time it will be much easier. Time spent aligning the sidecar is time well spent.
NOTE: When making toe-in adjustments, make corrections in small increments, then recheck. Very small adjustments in position of the Rear Pivot will have large results in toe-in.
CAUTION: Tighten all bolts securely.
Road Testing
Unlike a Hack (Rigid Sidecar), a Leaner Sidecar does not need Lean Out adjustment prior to road testing.
The true test of toe-in adjustment is the road test, preferably on a smooth, straight, level, paved road with typical camber slanting off towards the left (in Australia). At a steady speed of 40 mph (65,km/h), the motorcycle should not pull to either side while running at normal road speed.
Extracted from the Year 2000 Ural Repair Manual: http://www.sidecarafrica.co.za…
Replacement Stand
These pictures are an example of a replacement motorcycle stand on a Leaner Rig and Outfit.
Proposed Leaner Sidecar Project Steps
These Steps are a Guide only, Please Use Common Sense 🙂
1. Inspect Sidecar Welds If necessary, re-weld any messy welds on the sidecar chassis.
2 Locate the Lead and Clearance
To locate the Lead, place the sidecar wheel hub 8-12 inches (200-300mm) forward of the motorcycle rear wheel axle.
To locate mirror and handlebar clearance, place the motorcycle beside the sidecar. Using chain blocks, lower the bike towards the sidecar between 45 to 50 degree lean.
Rotate the handlebars to ensure there will be enough clearance.
3. Make Pivot Bracket (Shadow Frame) and Pivots
Use some tie downs to hold the motorcycle straight upright and use other tie downs to compress the motorcycle shockies to simulate a rider sitting on the motorcycle. This will give the correct distance between the road and the motorcycle lower frame.
Manufacture a Pivot Bracket to connect to the motorcycle frame.
Do not drill or weld the motorcycle frame if it is oil filled.
Attach Pivots to this Pivot Bracket. These Pivots will be located in the centreline of the bike, one to the rear, underneath the frame and the other slightly higher in front of engine as per the above examples.
The Pivots are to have a rotating bush or ball joint at one end to allow free rotation and a threaded rod on the other end to connect to the sidecar chassis allowing Tow In adjustment.
4. Inflation
Place the rear and front of the motorcycle side of the sidecar on stands to ensure the sidecar is sitting level.
Pump the sidecar tyre to manufacturers recommended pressure.
Place 150kgs (to represent an electric wheelchair and occupant) into the sidecar to confirm correct shocky compression.
If after pumping up the shocky, it is not suitable to support this weight, replace the shocky.
5. Manufacture Leaner Horizontal Mounting Bars
Extend the sidecar chassis to create Leaner Horizontal Mounting Bars which will be used to attach to the Motorcycle Pivots. (Ensure the motorcycle stand will still operate and also check that you are still able to put your left foot down at stop signs without the Leaner Horizontal Mounting Bars getting in the way). Relocate the motorcycle stand if necessary. Refer example mentioned above.
The front Leaner Horizontal Mounting Bar will bend upward to reach the higher front Motorcycle Pivot.
The Leaner Horizontal Mounting Bars will have a nut welded on the motorcycle end. This will allow the Motorcycle Pivot’s threaded rod to adjust Tow In.
6. Install Brakes
Install the disc brake and assembly to the sidecar.
Connect motorcycle rear brake to the sidecar brake via a proportional valve.
Test brake operation.
7. Test Ride and Adjust Tow In
Test ride the Rig (motorcycle) and Outfit (sidecar) by counter steering the motorcycle.
Adjust Tow In as required.
Summary of the Problems with a Rigid Hack Sidecar Combination
- The need to convert the front end to Leading Link and add a Steering Damper (expensive and requires an engineer and modification approval)
- The danger of Flying the chair on a bend will steer you in a straight line until you can return the sidecar to the ground to regain steering control which could collide you with oncoming traffic (You would have to steer toward the oncoming vehicle to lower the chair)
- More effort to steer, I know because I steer my 650kg Rigid Hack (in comparison counter steering is effortless)
- Turning scrubs the sidecar tire (the sidecar tire does not steer)
- Tow-in and Lean-out are required to be adjusted every time the combination is separated and rejoined
Transport Authority Deny Approval of Leaner Sidecar
Unfortunately, I was denied the right to build a Wheelchair Accessible Sidecar and was only given the option to build a Rigid Hack. The decision to deny was based on overall width on Lean-Out. Although the maximum allowable width was 1850 mm, with full lean out, my mirror was outside this restriction, making a width of 2700.
Extract from the Modification Application
What I Would Do Differently to Create a Wheelchair Accessible Leaner Sidecar Combination
Maximum Width could be solved by building a sidecar from the ground up, rather than converting an existing tub. A motorcycle tire on the sidecar would reduce width significantly, as a car tire and wheel guard add extra width.
Also, if the sidecar was fabricated closer to the ground and a non solid tub was selected, the motorbike could be mounted closer to the tub, without the left hand-grip hitting the tub.
Read Shanniah’s Story to see the FJ1200 Wheelchair Accessible Sidecar complete…
Shanniah’s Story – From Hiring to Building a Wheelchair Accessible Sidecar
The Leaner Sidecar Provides Solutions
- Effortless Counter Steering
- Sidecar tire steers with the motorbike
- No Leading Link or Steering Damper modification necessary
- Flying the chair is not possible
- Tow-in and Wheel Lead only needs to be setup once. Lean Out is not necessary
- Sidecar can easily be removed and replaced to allow solo riding with minimal adjustments on replacement
Buy Used Leaner Sidecar Combination:
Buy a Tub:
https://www.haulnride.com/product-category/motorcycles/sidecars/rigid-sidecars
Leaner Sidecar Forum
Share Your Project
Submit Your Leaner, Parallel or Flexible Sidecar Project: Visit the webpage below and leave a comment indicating you would like your project included on Haul N Ride. Other builders would love to see your project. 🙂
To take a look at more Homemade Leaner Sidecar Combinations and Submit Your Project:
Motorcycle Leaner Flexible Parallel Sidecars – Homemade Projects
Haul N Ride website was created to explore Innovation and Human Creativity with a focus on Interesting, Rare and Unusual Motorcycles and Accessories. Haul N Ride welcomes the sharing of projects and ideas, creating an enjoyable and educational online resource. We like to hear from readers so please leave a comment below and let us know if this post helped you or if you have any questions.
Thank you for visiting Haul N Ride. Dave
Howdy.. I have a Yamaha Stratoliner and was thinking of sidecar for the dog.. I didnt want a rigid Hack and this looks like something Dog and I would enjoy. What’s available for Stratoliner ?
estimados quiero fabricar un sidecar delgado que la moto se incline 55º podrian pasarme informacion, planos medidas, etc, espara una jawa 350 clasica 638 año 1994. esta muy buena la pagina. saludos.
Estimados soy de Argentina, le pido toda la informacion que puedan facilitarme, planos, madidas, materiales. pra fabricarle un sidecar articulado a una jawa 350. desde ya muchas gracias. me encanto la pagina.
EST CE QUE C EST POSSIBLE UN LEANER SIDE CAR SUR UN HONDA VALKYRIE 1997 ETANT DONNÉ QUE IL Y A 1 GROS SILENCIEUX DE CHAQUE COTÉ MERCI
Hi SYLVAIN,
I think the following links may help you:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php?topic=16242.0
https://advrider.com/f/threads/hack-for-valkyrie.322221/
You may also consider a Leaner Sidecar Combination:
https://www.haulnride.com/motorcycle-leaner-sidecar-homemade-projects
Good luck with your project.
Have a great day 🙂
Dave
Hi just found this site great reading all the info on learners is what I wanted to know I am getting on a bit and after years of trials riding my arms & legs play up so I want to fit a leaner to my sinnis scooter now with all the info you have given I think it can work making up sub frame with wood to work out pivots angles ect
When I find out if it’s a goer I will keep you informed in case someone’ else is interested
Will make chair from 2mm alloy sheet
Cheers trev !n uk
Hi Trev, we eagerly await photos and descriptions of your project that Haul N Ride can share with others. Good luck. Dave
Hello my biker friends,
I am Gokhan from Corum, Turkey. I am a natural born biker and I have been studying Sidecar for about 6 months and now I am on the corner of buying one. I was wondering if you might be able to answer a few questions about your Sidecar. I am thinking of applying a sidecar to my current bike Honda Varadero XL 1000. I have a project in which The sidecar I am planning is that the bike can lean upto 55 degrees both sides. Furthermore, it is very important for me as I will be the first person in Turkey to prove such a project. I would like to ask for your support as I wonder what problems did occur during the production and mounting and what should I be careful and alert for in the process. If possible I request detailed info with pics, diagrams, links or even videos.
I will be glad to hearing from you via e-mail, whatsapp or telegram:
my phone number: 905058220744
Thanks a lot for your kindness and help
Welcome, there are plenty of examples, pics, diagrams, videos and specification on Haul n Ride,
https://www.haulnride.com/motorcycle-leaner-sidecar-homemade-projects
Please feel free to share your project, photos and specs as you create your project 🙂
Have a great day.
Dave
Hey guys! Very cool stuff. I’m looking for more info on where, how much, how difficult to install one of these. I own a Kawasaki Concours (ZG1000) motorcycle. My wife can’t always “ride” due to illness, but she can sit in a car…I’m looking for a side car that will be a bit easier for an older woman to easily get into and out of. Suggestions? Web sites?
Hi Rich,
Due to the simplicity of the Leaner Sidecar attachment, I think many rigid sidecar designs have the potential to modify the attachment as a Leaner. At under $4,000, the Royal Enfield would be the first that come to my mind.
https://www.eurobrit.com.au/store/Sidecars
Many people build their own Leaner Combination, however if you are not handy with the tools, you may need to locate a local engineer to fit the sidecar safely.
I encourage you to read through the many bikers that have shared the entire build with Haul N Ride:
https://www.haulnride.com/motorcycle-leaner-sidecar-homemade-projects
Have a great day and ride safe. Dave
Hi,
First of all, congratulations for the excellent website!
I am thinking about a cargo sidecar to ride my FJ09 on icy roads during winter and carrying camping gears in summer on solo rides, so I think about something light duty and fairly simple.
My first question is how do you size the components, such pipe diameters and thickness, ball joints and so on? Do you have any manual or guideline for me to follow?
Second question is, because I am not a welder, if it’s possible to have a bolted frame instead. Any experience or recommendation about this option?
Thank you in advance for your support.
Cheers
Mark
Hi Mark,
I am delighted you appreciate Haul N Ride.
I hope that the information collected on Haul N Ride will be of assistance.
Please visit the following links:
Home Builders – Leaner Sidecars
https://www.haulnride.com/motorcycle-leaner-sidecar-homemade-projects
Attachment of a Rigid Sidecar
https://www.haulnride.com/engineer-workshop-conversion-kits-fitting-guides-manuals
I hope you gain some ideas from the above links.
Please feel free to share photos with Haul N Ride as you build your combination.
https://www.haulnride.com/contact-haul-n-ride
Have a great day and ride safe.
Dave
Hi Dave love the web site so much info. I built and drove a vw trike a few years back but did not enjoy it as much as riding solo. I had thought about a ridged sidecar for grandkids and people who can’t get on the back of a bike but I don’t think I would enjoy it as much plus I would have to have a dedicated rig setup. I love the idea of the leaning side car for all the reasons spoken about on this site. My question is can you get approval for one in NSW and who would you talk to. I had a brief discussion with a sidecar manufacturer in Victoria however he didn’t believe you could get approval in Australia. I am keen to pursue this idea so any information would be helpful.
Hi Patrick, I submitted a Modification Application with the Western Australian Department of Transport for a Leaner Sidecar. The document was about 30 pages and covered engineering, lashing angles, diagrams and addressed the Road Traffic Standards and the Australian Design Rules. My application was rejected on ONE POINT. WIDTH.
The total allowable Maximum Width for a Motorcycle/Sidecar Combination in Western Australia is 1850mm. This was impossible to achieve with my tub.
My tub has a car tyre and is wide so I can load my daughter in her wheelchair.
https://www.abilitymotorcycles.com/shanniahs-story-from-hiring-to-building-a-wheelchair-accessible-sidecar
I was talking to Ralph who owns Kalich Leaner Sidecars in Germany. Ralph said it would be easy to register a Leaner in Australia if you build from scratch, and follow some simple rules.
1. Keep it as low clearance as the law allows.
2. Use a heavy weight rated motorcycle tyre (instead of a car tyre), to radically reduce width.
3. Design the sidecar tub body to allow the handlebar to lean in, allowing the mounting of the bike closer to the tub.
I agree with Ralph, however I had already committed to my tub and had limited funds, so I went rigid hack.
Send me an email to https://www.haulnride.com/contact-haul-n-ride and I can email you a copy of my Mod App if you like.
Let me know how you go and good luck, Dave
Hi Dave
Thank you for the quick reply. It took me 8 years to build the trike because I was time poor so was hoping to build something from scrach. So it appears that no one imports kits for a leaning side car to Australia. Could you buy the bike attachment from over seas then adapt a narrower tub ? Is there anyone in Australia with a project who could be worth talking to?.
By the way I read your story and was very inspired.
Regards
Patrick
Pat61@hotmail.com.au
Hi Patrick,
Unfortunately I am not aware of anyone in Australia with a leaner sidecar project. You could consider one of the three following options.
1. purchase a Leaner Sidecar Combination already complete and import to Australia between $7,000 and $10,000 AUD and pay to freight to Aussie.
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-schwenker-gespann/k0
http://schwenker-gespann-club.de/index.htm?http://schwenker-gespann-club.de/schwenker.htm
2. Purchase a Rigid Sidecar Tub and have a local engineer fabricate the sub chassis for your bike and leaner attachment modification for the sidecar.
https://www.haulnride.com/product/for-sale-sidecars-left-mounted-australia
3. Alternatively you could join the Leaner Sidecar Forum and let them know what you plan. There are plenty of English Speaking members who are very willing to chat and offer advice:
http://www.schwenker-gespanne.de/forum/
Good luck and please keep in touch with Haul N Ride and share with us the outcome and share your project when you begin.
Have an excellent day. Dave
Great information about leaning sidecars. Some I would add… DGsidecars.com. Made in Canada and they speak english, prices are on par but the dollar is stronger than the canadian so its a noticable savings. Also, Kalich.de is all in German, they do respond in about a week but prices are quit high do to the strength of the Euro.
I am trying to prepare to do a trip to Alaska and Sturgis in 2020 with an Africa Twin and leaning sidecar set up. Trying to take my dog and have been researching the how of it for a few months now. Confident I will purchase the DGsidecar and do the attachment myself. Every site I have been to needs the bike to do the work and shipping an AF to Canada or Germany is not happening.
Hi Tyson, thank you for providing comments to Haul N Ride. I already have a link to Kalich.de above on this page. I will definitely include DGsidecars as you suggested.
I’m sure our readers would love to follow you on your leaner build and Alaska trip. Please send photos and details to https://www.haulnride.com/about-haul-n-ride as I would love to build you a feature page. The information you have provided will help many people. Cheers. Have an awesome day. Dave
Howdy there! Great examples that I learned so much from for my build, so thank you! I modified a 1975 Spirit Eagle for my 2011 Triumph Rocket Roadster and just got it finished and on the road. What a hoot! Would love to share the build.
John
Hi John,
How exciting, I would love to create a Feature Showcase of your project.
Please send any photos, measurements and details to this email and I will get started 🙂
Here are some ideas.
Specs:
Rear mount ground clearance measurement (ground to center bolt)
Front Mount Ground Clearance measurement (ground to center bolt)
Bike make/model
2011 Triumph Rocket Roadster
Make/Model of Sidecar Tub, fibreglass tub, aluminum (aluminium) frame, steel sheet wrapped etc
1975 Spirit Eagle Fibreglass Tub
Sidecar Frame type, eg square/round tubing, dimensions
Tandem or Single Tub
Total Width of Combination lean in
Total Width of Combination lean out
Distance between sidecar and the motorcycle
Sidecar Tire (tyre) Speed Rating, Weight Rating
Sidecar Rim details, diameter, rim width
Shock Absorber/Swing arm type on sidecar wheel (Coilover Shocky, Pump-up Shocky etc)
Pivot Attachment to Motorcycle, (Rose bush, heim joint, Rod End etc)
Motorcycle Sub-chassis details (Square/Round Steel Tubing, Aluminum etc) dimensions and attachment to motorcycle (High Tensile steel, lock nuts etc)
Sidecar brake details if fitted, drum/disc, plumbed to motorcycle rear or front brake cylinder
Rear Mount Clearance between exhaust when leaning (if sidecar fitted to right side USA)
What is it like to own a Leaner:
What is it like to ride a leaner in comparison to a rigid sidecar combo (if you have ridden a Rigid)?
What is it like to ride a leaner in comparison to a solo bike?
Does the sidecar try to overtake your bike when slowing down with a passenger?
Does it fall behind you if you accelerate fast?
Do you need to adjust the tow-in when changing from passenger to empty?
Do you remove the leaner and ride as a solo?
Have you removed an indicator from the rear of the motorcycle to avoid confusion for other road users?
Did you keep your factory motorcycle stand?
The more information, photos and drawings we collect, the better we can help other builders with their project and design.
Thank you for sharing, you are awesome 🙂 Dave
Hello everyone, thanks for this great site, it’s full of knowledge….. I have a question I want to build a leaner, but my Harley Davidson road king has “only” 13 cms or 5 inches in ground clearance to the frame….. Do you think that will be enough? Thinking that around my town we have lots of bumps in the street….
Thanks in advance
Hi Rodolfo,
You may take a look at the Armec Sidewinder clearance measurements on this page:
https://www.haulnride.com/motorcycle-leaner-sidecar-homemade-projects
Also my FJ1200 rigid sidecar is 4 inches and the exhaust does scrape on some kerbs:
https://www.haulnride.com/motorcycle-leaner-sidecar-homemade-projects
Good luck with your build and please share photos and specks with Haul N Ride.
Ride safe.
Dave
Hi, love the idea of leaning sidecar just wondering if ever done one on a scooter like Sym Fiddle 3- 169cc engine less power but easier to ride around town.
Hi Jaime,
The smallest engine size motorcycle Leaner Sidecar Combination I am aware of is Paul’s 600cc Kwaka.
https://www.haulnride.com/pauls-kawasaki-zzr600-leaner-sidecar-project-haul-n-ride
Depending on the scooter, it may or may not be difficult to attach to the frame.
Good luck with your build and please take photos as you progress to share on Haul N Ride.
Have a great day. Dave
Hi Jaime & Dave – There are some challenges on a scooter – but perhaps this config would help.
Challenge:
– Wide floor board will interfere with front connection tube to hack on lean in.
– Little room between leg shield and front wheel to place connection.
– Interference between back connecting tube to hack with floor board, and kick start on some models.
Potential solution. Mount front tube on leg shield – on leg side – elevated vertically above the floor board – tying in to vertical steering column structure. Use a custom mount. Then create a second custom mount connection at the tail of the bike – just behind the back wheel – that gives you the lower mount location with no issues of ground interference. This solves the general issue of spreading the load over a longer length of the bike as well – an issue for all scooter side cars of any type.
Just my $.02
Hi Charlieman22, thank you for sharing your $0.02 worth of knowledge and ideas. I think you may have under estimated your worth ($0.02) 🙂 I’m sure Jaime will find your explanation extremely helpful. I imagine the front tube would need to be very strong and hopefully there is enough strength in the leg shield to secure it. It is an excellent idea, as it will allow the front mount to be higher to steer the sidecar. I wonder Jaime; if you plan on carrying a person in the sidecar or luggage? We can’t wait to hear the outcome and would love some photos and share the story to inspire others. Cheers for visiting Haul N Ride Charlieman22 and offering your support to Jaime. Have an amazing day. Dave
I just had a thought. the mention of the rear mount behind the rear wheel, made me think of a tow bar. 4 wheel drive vehicles use a swivel tow bar to allow the camper trailer to tilt on uneven ground. that could perhaps be perfect for the tilting of a leaner sidecar. 🙂
Very educational content, I like the leaner idea better than rigid,
I tried the rigid, didn’t care for it, but I like the concept of the sidecar.
I have a 2013 VSTAR1300 which I might putting a sidecar on it.
Thanks Dick
Glad to hear you enjoyed the Leaner Sidecar article. I have a rigid combination and find “push/pull” steering to be very tiresome, when compared to solo “counter steering”. Bikes are designed to lean and perform at their best when attached as a leaner sidecar combination. I welcome you to share your build with Haul N Ride when you begin adding a sidecar. Have a great day. Dave
Greetings Dave,
I have several rigid side car rigs but really want to build a proper “leaning” rig , to that end I just acquired a pristine very lo mile 1980 Yamaha XS1100. Thought about doing it on my R1 but Ralph Kalich told me that would be crazy. Given he feelings in that regard, going with the XS11. Wish me luck and I will keep you posted
Greetings Steve,
Thank you for sharing your project with us. I highly respect Ralph and his experience, and therefore would also be sure to take on any advice he has to offer. I think an 1100cc is an excellent choice due to the extra weight you will encounter. Remember to take plenty of photos during your build that you may share on Haul N Ride and other websites. This greatly helps and inspires other Leaner Sidecar enthusiasts. Good luck and keep us posted. Have an amazing day. Dave
Hi Tom, Sorry that all I can offer to answer your query is that the Front Pivot Mount is raised slightly higher than the rear Pivot Mount. I have not been able to find any working specifications. The photos above of the BMW and the Dirt Bike show the area in the front of the engine as a good guide. I recommend you ask the experts that build these sidecars all the time on the following forum.
http://schwenker-gespanne.de/forum/index.php?page=Board&boardID=12
The wealth of knowledge will be well worth joining and they are happy to answer questions. I love the advantage of the higher mount steering the sidecar rather than scrubbing the tyre.
Alternatively, would you allow me to give Edwards your email address as he owns a sidewinder and you could perhaps ask him to send you some measurements?
See Edwards comment above.
Let me know. Cheers Dave
been playing with these for a while on and off have been trying to get a unison leaner to work on a 1950 sunbeam although i think the sunbeam has lots of limitations on the pivot points so im considering building a sidewinder type just wondering what the height difference between the front and rear pivot points should be i can see the plus points of this type as opposed to the unison setup ie simpler and lighter lightness being the thing im looking for as the bike only has 23 hp and brakes to match
thanks Tom
Hi Edwards, it is so exciting to hear from a “real owner” of a Leaner Sidecar combination. You are so lucky to have had the experience of an Armec Sidewinder.
I have a Rigid Hack FJ1200 and it requires much effort to steer, even though it has Leading Link. Mind you it is in total 630 kgs (1380 pounds).
Then I ride my Honda Shadow solo and treat myself to counter steering, so relaxing in comparison.
Leaner sidecars are so much safer and easier to handle, if it weren’t for regulations, I would convert my Hack to Leaner.
You can read about it here: http://schwenker-gespanne.de/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=1646&s=797784c6cdf6a42b019c2f36e219c484a6ee341a
I would truly love to share your pictures. Have you ridden with or found any other Flexible or Leaner Sidecar owners?
Thank you for your feedback and comment. Have a great day. Dave
Thanks, Dave. I sent two emails with photos of the rig. I have not ever come across another Sidewinder on the road, and have only seen two for sale on the internet in the past 16 years.
Yes Edwards, very rare indeed. Thank you for sharing with Haul N Ride. Haul N Ride shares many unusual creations and motorcycle modifications, but Leaner Sidecars share a special place in my heart. Simple modification, motorcycle counter steering steers (rather then scrub) the sidecar wheel, no flying the chair, no rear wheel lift, no leading link necessary, the list goes on. Such a safe combination. Thank you for stopping by and sharing. Enjoy riding your Leaner Beema. Have a great day. Dave
Dave- Great article! I have owned an Armec Sidewinder since 2002, on a 1999 BMW R1100GS. It is red, and appears in Armec video. Our two girls grew up riding with us, both in the sidecar and pillion, since ages 20 months and 4.5 years (now almost 21 and 17 years old). It is a lot of fun and we use it for events like Ride for Kids, etc. Highly recommend it, if you can find one. Dave, email me for a photo if you would like. Edwards Holliday
These are some very interesting videos. At my first glance I thought “no way” would I ride on one of these but actually as I kept reading I realized these are constructed very well and are safe.
I did not know these had been around for so many years. Actually I have never seen one before. I could see myself using this maybe in a setting where the streets were not so busy, but I am interested enough to ride one now. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Nate, I am glad you enjoyed the Leaner Sidecar article. They are easier to learn than a Rigid Hack combination if you are experienced riding a solo two wheeler. And yes, they are very rare indeed, although perhaps not in Europe. Have an awesome day and ride safe. Dave